"Universally forbidden, yet universally practiced." - Ester Perel
Restoring, Rebuilding and Recapturing Fidelity
The pain of infidelity and betrayal, whether in a committed relationship or marriage, can be ridden with long term emotional pain. The breach of trust, deep hurt, and unbending anger commonly lead to divorce; some couples decide to stay together living with trust issues and lost love.
Debra specializes in working with couples who want to recommit to the bonds of the satisfying relationship and recapture the love once enjoyed.
The Restoring, Rebuilding and Recapturing Fidelity program includes the following topics:
- Re-conceptualizing Infidelity and Cheating
- Building Boundaries and Resilience
- Talking and Listening with Intentional Strategies
- Deeper connection and closeness
- Knowing about trust and trustworthiness
- Talk less about the past and more about the present
- Express thoughts and emotions more openly, clearly, and genuinely
- Recognize healthy boundaries like fidelity and trust
okay are you recording yes five four three all right we're here today again with Deborah Neum she is a specialist in couples that have challenges in there a couple hood and especially as they have challenges that relates to Hospital infidelity issues and she was talking to me a little bit before we started the other day about a paradox in priorities not priorities may not be exactly how they should be in her life to accomplish the goals we won so Deborah I I just give it that very brief introduction why don't you tell us what you really mean when you're talking about a paradox in priorities well the paradox is that with the lion's share of the couples that I've seen that they may be reluctance to spend the time the money or the energy to invest in counseling and there is a gap between what we say is important and what could possibly be there for example and here I'm going to give you maybe three points to think about years ago I had the worst toothache ever I mean it was a ten on a ten point scale I went to the emergency room that night they gave me one pain pill I scheduled an appointment with my dentist the next day he immediately scheduled me with the end of godness and even though it was the root canal them the most painful experience I've ever had it's what I needed to get rid of that pain to stop the bleeding and to move forward I went to a professional and most people if they have a really really bad toothache they're going to go to a professional if your cell phone breaks and you can't make a call receive a call or forbid send a text it's only going to be a matter of hours or maybe a day but or you go get the phone repair you go to a professional someone who does that on a regular basis yet when it comes to the couples that I have seen they struggle on their own for years with the same chronic pattern of a breach of trust that that next unexpected credit card debt that's incurred behind their back that next use of pornography and going back and the discovery of this Internet in the three months of going back to internet sites that are pornography based or yet another breach I said I would never cheat again I promised and I and I couldn't execute and yet it goes again and again and again and people are struggling on their own so the the question is if this is happening to you and you're still struggling on your own to pick something that's so seemingly all important and all meaningful is there then my point though there is a gap between where we spend our time where we spend our energy where we spend our money are we more invested in the relationship with the cellphone or are we more invested in the relationship with pornography or some other outside loyalties and can we now rethink that and create rather than a continued pathway backwards I help people create a real healthy sustaining pathway forward it makes a difference to have this real connection a real connection so that when you're 50 60 70 80 you look back what's going to be the most meaningful priority in your life so I dr. Katz's encourage people to to take time now write down what your priorities are and when it comes to this ongoing struggle things that way your day-to-day down in this relationship it stays in your head why not invest in something an outside intervention and outside resource that you can trust in that will help you move past the problem and move on to some bigger bigger more satisfying day-to-day and depth to that relationship you know yeah I have they may wonder why I'm talking to you and I'll to say that I am a consultant I specialize only in consulting with therapists to help them with their progress in practice and I have had over Deiters 300 therapists will work with me for a year or longer to put programs together to help them improve the quality of the care of their patients and I will tell you one thing that you fit exactly if you match the right therapist to the right problem your chance of success is much larger so if you talking to the people may be watching if you're a couple and you're having relationship issues then go to somebody who is a specialist in relationship issues don't go to someone else and that would be on Deborah Neal and if you're a couple and you there has been infidelity or you expect there may be some infidelity then certainly don't go to anyone else you have to go to the person who had all the experience with it and that would be that would be Deborah Neal of course and so make sure that when you choose you put your priorities in the right place don't just pick anybody this is what important to your life make somebody who you feel would you the best for you dr. Katz I want to say that recently I worked with an individual in a couple long-distance with this pattern that have been going on pattern of pornography rich and when I listen to the spouse and what she has gone through literally for years the loneliness isolation the shame of feeling like there's something wrong with her it was really a joy to have them both in their last session leave writing down all the things that they have gained in working together but for the most part we we worked remotely and I just want to say for those people who don't live locally in the Overland Park area if you really want someone to talk with I can help and I will be happy happy to set up some it's tell-tell counseling now maybe maybe when we give this video its final form will have a telephone number and probably give us the name of your company again and give us a telephone number my company is pathways to empowerment I can be reached at eight one six eight zero five zero seven three two okay and where are you located in Overland Park Kansas and that's a suburb of Kansas City yes okay very good and you're jumping pace yourself accepting new patients with individuals who are dealing with infidelity yeah or couple yeah and they gave very soon feels yes okay okay thank you we've been talking with Deborah deal I have a lot of experience with a lot of therapists like I said I've worked with over 300 on a year-long basis in the last ten years and I will tell you that it certainly helped to work with a professional like Deborah thanks for listening
okay Deborah last time we were together we kind of left with I had one more question I want to ask but if what the felt the video was getting a little long so I have a question for you what are really the ingredients to rebuild a marriage the first ingredient is where there must be an acknowledgement that there has been a breach of trust on both sides the definition of an affair has traditionally been pretty narrow to a relationship outside of a marriage the idea of infidelity is really broadening it could include an intense emotional relationship where there's no sex it could be a financial infidelity where there's hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that's been incurred behind the partner's back either because of problem gambling or compulsive dating or it could just be committing the act of continuing to be on dating apps despite this primary relationship okay now when you say the acknowledgement of that is that with both the party that's doing it and the partner is it just mostly the acknowledgement by the person that's on the dating app that they shouldn't be doing it mostly it is the person that is the unfaithful person that believes that if they didn't have sex that there is no infidelity or that nothing happened that there is no infidelity so it's primarily on the unfaithful person's part that there must be an acknowledgment that it caused a rupture in the foundation of trust and security however for the hurt person in a different way there needs to be an understanding that it really was a breach there yeah now I basically what you're saying is some people might be in denial that they're saying since the sex didn't actually happened yeah it wasn't really an affair and they try to deny that there's a problem is that right yes yes know that now the second one what is the second one then the second ingredient to rebuilding the foundation is an uncovering a discovery and a throwing away of those unconscious roadblocks that really do fuel chronic conflict and an erosion of the intimacy know now that I don't understand exactly what you're saying here give me an example so an example is that there are repeated gridlocks there are repeated communication patterns a couple says we argue over the same thing again and again and again five years down the road they're still arguing over the same two or three problems and then the uncovering and the discovery what are they doing that keeps them repeating that same maladaptive pattern right okay and then what's the third one the third ingredient really is pulling together this priceless set of tools and strategies and resources that come together with doing work in an immersed fashion so immersing one's in the process of change and uncovering through such things as weekend intensives such things as double sessions such thing as being willing to create a daily plan of action Dan so that there's momentum gained pretty quickly okay now you mentioned something that that I I always think would be so valuable now I'm not a therapist so I can't say this with I would think that meeting with somebody for 45 or 50 minutes one time a week wouldn't have near the effect a meeting with somebody for twice that long or even meeting for three or four hours one day you know to get things Tennant the ball rolling get under under get it under control a little bit is that true you ever do more than a one-hour session or a 50-minute or 45-minute session yes that's what I mean by a double session so a double session would be a back-to-back session it would be actually a 90-minute session and there it is yes I would think that would be a really good thing to get things started now can they do can they do all 90 sessions all 90 minute sessions no there's the 90 minute sessions and then there are the weekend intensive the Friday and Saturday of coming together for an eight-hour package so they could meet with you for me with you for the better part of a couple days yeah yes and then and to me that's the one that I would choose if I was in that situation you know you just want to get stuck behind you you know you just want to get progress you want to get something that started Infidelity Counseling: Ingredients to Successful Marriage Outcome
hi Debra I want to go a little bit different direction today we've been doing several videos down together they're probably three or four or five and one of the things I've been like last time we talked was you gave a story of a couple that had a unique circumstance and they had a successful outcome I would like to hear another story maybe two today of just somebody that has a unique circumstance with a successful outcome so give me James changed the names to protect the innocent but well but give me a sum of ideas and some stories I can think of mark and Mary Mark had accrued a hundred and fifty thousand dollars of gambling debt his wife had no idea until one day she got a foreclosure note on the house she was devastated and let me be clear there's different types of infidelity in breach of trust we know about the affair but this was really the same thing it's like an affair with compulsive gambling mmm-hmm so she's losing her house her husband mark finally admitted that there was a compulsive gambling problem sports betting in particular and that he and that he wanted help they came in together we used what I call the priceless package of assessments and looking at all of the package of tools to uncover the problem and we used the intensive sessions to immerse them in the process now let me stop you right there just a minute for somebody that this is our first video they're watching an intensive session means that you meet with them for maybe two or three hours at a time for two or three days yes yes in this particular case with mark and Mary we started out with a weekend intensive Friday night Saturday morning and then we went to the back-to-back sessions the double sessions 90 minutes to be specific about once a week then well for a couple of weeks we met twice a week yeah I think that'd be necessary yeah with the night the story I didn't want to interrupt you but I just want to make sure that people do with intentions and double sessions a man going up the story yes so just you know with the uniqueness of compulsive gambling the addiction and the compulsion we began to work on strategies to contain the finances that were still coming in we did a battery of things just around the compulsive gambling and then we shifted toward understanding and coping with the devastation of emotions the devastation of the loss of what the the couple and especially the her partner thought this marriage was built on right so as we begin to look at weeks down the road with all of the work we begin to know that number one mark stop gambling no sports betting for eight months money is going back into the checking account some money is going back into the savings account enough to buy another home and Mary is feeling a bit more secure now she still has a hard time trusting but her partnership and her commitment to her side of the work remains strong good and they're both today they can say wow our marriage and our relationship is stronger than it is before we know we still need work however okay very good that's good and that's a good illustration because a lot of times you talk about the infidelity in marriage but the infidelity doesn't have to be sexual you know it can be with an addiction or anything like that so that's that's a good illustration and you work with all those don't you you work with all types of entities you might say now I asked you before but you're still taking new patients right yes and and if they want to do internships or double sessions you're willing to do that with them we provide many options for couples we share what works for most situations and most people and then individuals can design couples can decide from there okay okay very good okay and you're gonna post this on the website like you have your other video show your your phone numbers all over the website they just call you for an appointment right yes and they they can talk to you a little bit before they make the appointment I mean just on the phone just ask questions that's important I'm willing to spend a few minutes on the phone time calls okay okay okay very good Thank You Debra I appreciate you sharing with us today Success story Mark and Mary 2
hi Deborah it's Dave Katz again and I had some questions for you and I thought we'd just do it my video and maybe we can record this you can even put it on your website because I think it's information that everybody would like to know when we were talking last week we didn't record it but we were talking last week you said that there were two types of couples that come to you for marriage counseling where there has been an affair and so that's the context we're going to work in so if there's a marriage couple that has a problem because there's been the fair you said there's two types of couples that come in and it kind of does a little bit of predicting of what's going to happen in the future what are those two types of couples they're ready couple and the skeptical couple okay now it sounds pretty obvious what they mean but give me give me the definition already couple what is there ready couple a ready couple dr. Katz is one that comes in they're motivated they're positive and they are willing to do the work both the her person and the unfaithful person together they want or the Ruby build the marriage okay and they're and they're both in it they both know they want to do it it's just a matter of how do we get it done yeah now what about the skeptical couple it's kind of self-explanatory but generally skeptical is more characteristic is the skeptical couple the skeptical couple both the unfaithful person and the hurt person or some what fearful doubtful perhaps even hopeless about whether or not they can make the relationship work and are there sometimes people that come in that they don't know if they want to make the relationship work absolutely I think that that ties to some of the questions that bring people in that fall within that category can I even make this work and I'm not even even sure if I have the energy yeah yeah no no what's the biggest question that people ask you when they when they are deciding whether new therapy or not yes tremendous question the her person asked the question can I will I ever stop replaying this tape in my head of the text messages and those pictures that I saw he unfaithful partner asked the question can I ever stop cheating it's all I know I've been cheating my wife for 15 years can I ever stop and how do I actually begin to go into the process no let me ask you a question what's the answer what's the answer with that are they gonna are they gonna be able to say are you gonna be able to save them yes there's hope or what what or will they ever rebuild back to normal yeah I think collectively we just combine those two it's really the question of is the work worth it is it even possible with the rupture that's led to this commitment that's void of intimacy the answer is a resounding yes you can build a new house a marriage with the foundation that secure stable and has new foundation of intimacy and one time one time you talked to me before when you said that it can not only get it back they can be better than it was absolutely you know that's why should we hold yeah okay yeah I guess essentially the biggest question today I wanna that I wanted to ask you are you're gonna put this video and folder on your website this video will be on the website okay now and and we're probably gonna do some more videos like this because I got quite a few more questions and so if they're watching this they probably are on your website now you're are you accepting couples right now as fakers as clients at this particular time I am accepting patients who have had trust okay and can they eat in right away within several days I'm willing and able to tweak my schedule to make sure we can get individualization no user this may be jumping ahead a little bit but is there a chance I know that I know that speaking from a guy's perspective I just want to get some relief you know I just want to know that things can be okay and I want to know as fast as I can will you work with a couple in an intense way if they want to so that you can see them for double sessions or even for most of one or two days at a time do you do that type thing yes can I answer that quickly in two sentences you were asking about you know what's the most common question that's asked the faithful person says well why can't I just put this behind me why can't we just forget about it and move on and just start over and with that kind of thinking it does require intensive work there are five or six steps that that person needs to get to in order to begin to level the playing field to being able to do the necessary work so the weekend intensives the double sessions individually and as a couple really do help that or Tibet and question yeah you know I know I don't think I think that I would choose a therapist in large part based on whether they can do Devils and intentions that's very communities very important may not be to the other people listening but to me to be very important I'm glad that you do that okay you're on the website you were on the website right now your phone numbers all over the website but they want to get a motier just giving goal right yes okay okay thanks a lot I appreciate it Two Types Of Couple Ready & Skeptical
can you give me an example of a couple that has gone through this and had a successful outcome yes yes I'm going to make up two names for privacy and confidentiality but let's just say there's Jane and John they aim to me and and one of the parties John John John had 15 years of cheating on the spouse and at this pattern of every two years of going out and being involved sometimes with the same women over and over again finally there was this ultimatum in a sense that I cannot do this anymore and I really need for something to change either we go to counseling and we really work on this or I need to move forward and so fortunately there was an opportunity on both sides both for Jane and John and they were willing to come in and do the work and we started out initially with a weekend intensive the Friday and Saturday we then proceeded for four weeks of the intensives during the week and it wasn't long before they started spending time in the same bedroom together John moved back into the bedroom they began to want to talk they started looking forward to coming to the sessions and they were both opening up about things that they had not ever opened up about before and they were finally able to learn some tools on how to talk and listen to one another in a meaningful way that's great you know you know if I if I were listening to this and I had any concern about my marriage I would probably want to get talk to you and I'd probably wanted I probably want to hear about the intentions I mean I asked other people may not but that's the way I would be I would like to hear about the internships I suppose you're gonna post this video on your website again right yes and and so they're gonna when they're seeing this video they're actually already on your website so now they can I suppose you have your phone number all over the website absolutely okay boy anytime they want to and set up an appointment yes yes you're checking patients there's no waiting glitch or anything like that at this particular time I am willing to flex my schedule for the individuals who really want and ever eager to work yeah okay that's good because you know I know a lot of therapists that when they do the intensives you have to give up some on your part that's the therapist too because you know you're spending a lot of time with them like sometimes on a weekend or something like that when you would normally be with your family so that good okay okay so what they can tell you find them number on the website okay thanks thanks Deborah I appreciate it I think I'm going to talk to you one more time and then we're just going to talk about some of these success stories because it sound like today Success Story :Jane & John
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Many couples want to get behind infidelity as soon as possible.
Debra is available for individuals and couples at a convenient location in Overland Park, with flexible appointment scheduling.